Mac Vs Win

[T3hRogue]

All right, so we know we hate Mac (or most of us do)
But why? If, in an argument, what do you say to prove your point that macs suck rather than just opinionated trout.

We shall compile the list as it goes, all being added to the OP. Oh, and we can't just say "inferior security". We have to say how. Just as that little goody. Then, when we have our list, all other posts will be deleted and the topic locked, so that in arguments we can refer opponents to this list.

Good Idea?

[Drumm]

Mac lies to its customers. It has been shown on several occasions that they are affected by malware.

http://www.sophos.com/blogs/gc/g/2010/06...rotection/
http://www.daniweb.com/news/story276570.html

My school also received a very powerful virus, which learned how to attack the school. Left us without Macs or Windows for 2 weeks. Just because our lousy technicians decided macs were perfect.



Steve Jobs took 'Woz's OpenSource shared computer, and got him to build it. So Steve could sell it. He used his best friend, without even understanding what is going on. Bill Gates actually coded from a very young age. Steve Jobs thinks System.io is an Apple Cheerio. The Homebrew club stopped being so big from then on.

There's alot more here: http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/bill_ga...e_jobs.php

[Pack3t SynAck3r]

Opinionated trouts? To an American that is a fish who is overzealous in sharing his feelings on a particular topic. Damn Red Coats.
Shall we go there really? So be it then, I could care less about a Mac's security, go to a Black Hat convention sometime and to see how many exploits have been found, how easy it is to write a rootkit for Mac OSX. It is irrelevant. Only ~5% of the world's "home computers" are Macs. Crackers are not going to waste their time on something that has such a small demographic target. The term often used is security through obscurity.

I believe Drumm touched on my biggest issue with Apple itself and that is of course Jobs. He is a master manipulator, a fork tongued salesman, and he truly believes it is HIS precious products that are shaping the dawning of the age of computers. It was indeed Steve Wozniak who is the real founder of Apple. Even before the homebrew club days Jobs was pimping Woz's black box's that were used for phone phreaking. Technically back in the homebrew days in the 70's there was no such thing as "open source." The homebrew club had a share all mentality because they were all working toward improving electronics as a whole. There were no imperial capitalists in the group. Just a bunch of dudes who were electronic hobbyists. The term open source was actually the work of Richard Stallman, a famous MIT hacker who is the father of the GNU. Free software was more about freedom to modify software as you saw fit to meet your needs than it was monetary freedom originally.

Linux was really the first true open source operating system. Linux was written in C++ which came from Unix which was written in C which came from Multics which was written in FAP (an old assembly based language.) BSD or Berkeley Unix came about originally in 1974 which was when Berkeley got their first AT&T Unix machine. Back then they shipped source code with their operating system which was necessary in order to make it work on all the varying comptuer architectures back then. AT&T also used universities to improve upon their product. It was a win-win situation Check the wiki page for BSD to find out about all of it. This is all relevant because Mac OS X is based upon the Mach kernel, which is a derivative of Unix/BSD architecture. Certain parts from FreeBSD's and NetBSD's implementation of Unix were incorporated in Nextstep, the core of Mac OS X. Nextstep (written in Obj-C which IMHO sucks ass) was the object-oriented operating system developed by Steve Jobs' company NeXT after he left Apple in 1985.

Jobs after he intially left (got fired from) Apple and left behind his precious Mac and Lisa (which contained GUI's that were ripped off of Xerox's engineers BTW, another interesting story for another day) and started up NeXT. Many of the people he had working for him worked on developing many BSD implementations. He in essence "had the idea" to put a GUI which of course was a ripped idea, on a BSD machine. He teamed up with Sun Microsystems and NextStep and the Openstep API was born. NeXT and it's baby Openstep where bought up by apple in 1997 (~11 years after the NeXT had been founded) because Apple had been getting its ass kicked because of the release of Windows 95. Openstep in turn got developed into OSX and got released to the public as something "brand-new" and innovative. It was the first "Unix-like" operating system that had commercial presence and so many people who were old Apple IIe users who disliked windows instability started using this "new" OSX and they thought is was FUCKING A TERRIFIC. Jobs and Apple have been clinging to this architecture for a decade now. Every piece of modern Apple hardware that is out there has some modified form of the OSX working on it. Wonder why Apple insists that all IPhone and BFIPhone(IPad) apps are written on Objective C? That's right boys and girls b/c NeXTStep and everything that has come therefore after from Jobs/Apple has been written in Obj C. Apple only wants its users to use things the way Apple intended for you to use them because A)Steve Jobs thinks his way of doing things is best ALWAYS and B) It is a pain in the ass trying to port a non-native code into a proprietary operating system that has never really had an good SDK released that would allow third party companies to write code to make said porting easier. Apple/Jobs wants all the profits. Look at the IPhone, or the IPod. They are nothing but revenue engines. Hardcore hackers, geeks, nerds and powerusers don't pay .99 cents for an app or song. Then again how many Jobs followers/fanboys would really fall under that category? Jobs didn't break or bend any rules by using BSD to develop OSX. Hell he walked completely around them and came out clean as a whistle on the other end. Apple/Jobs makes more money off of Unix then anyone ever has or probably ever will. I suppose the point here is that he took something that was free and good and was used for academia and betterment of mankind and technology and managed to make it dirty and evil and all about profits and his misconceptions of What a computer is supposed to be and how it is supposed to be used. He is a master of using others who are brilliant as brushes to paint his canvas.

On a side note I think Linux is the best available thing right now. I don't think it is the end all be all though. Hell I even think that Windows 7x64 isn't too bad of an operating system. I think that Microsoft is stuck in a bit of a rut as far as OS infrastructure goes. They have pretty much just been running WindowsNT with more and more bells and whistles since 1993. There is probably some little kid running around right now that will one day re-revolutionize computers once again and the way we use them. When it comes out we will all slap ourselves in the head and say "Why didn't I think of that?" Keep in mind we are still in the stone ages of computers. The wheel has been around for tens of thousands of years and look at all we have done with it. The one interesting thing about computer technology is that its growth is exponential. Every new thing seems to breed 10 other new things. It is an exciting time to be alive if you are a super geek like me, or like many of you. EOF

[T3hRogue]

I know about the GUI part. Wikiquest has it's uses

Nice list, but that can't be it surely?

[de Baphomet]

Just a correction, Linux is a kernel and not an operating system, GNU is basically the shell on top that makes it an operating system, hence GNU/Linux.

As for Jobs, I can tell he's been in the business of psychology for quite some time because while most salesmen understand few concepts of it, Jobs understands how to execute them enough to have people loyal for the sake of brand rather than quality (which the average person overestimates anyways, you set an anchoring point that Jobs has, the average person will be satisfied for having bought something more expensive and the lies of how good the product is, the person begins to believe it.)

[T3hRogue]

Now how would we be going about explaining this to a simpleton?

And we can't just say "Macs are bad because their leader is evil"

Or refer Star Wars

[Pack3t SynAck3r]

Just a correction, Linux is a kernel and not an operating system, GNU is basically the shell on top that makes it an operating system, hence GNU/Linux.

As for Jobs, I can tell he's been in the business of psychology for quite some time because while most salesmen understand few concepts of it, Jobs understands how to execute them enough to have people loyal for the sake of brand rather than quality (which the average person overestimates anyways, you set an anchoring point that Jobs has, the average person will be satisfied for having bought something more expensive and the lies of how good the product is, the person begins to believe it.)

Yes GNU/Linux is one of the clever recursive acronyms that Stallman is so notorious for(GNU not Unix). True Linux is not an operating system in itself but an operating system is nothing without its kernel, and how many O/S's have linux underneath the hood? Keep in mind I have been doped up on pain killers because I have an impacted wisdom tooth that isn't going to be removed until Tuesday and so my rant was a bit winded. Jobs is a snake-oil salesman, flat out. But he is a damn good one. But I don't respect people for their ability to sell something. I respect the product that someone is selling, and I don't care for OSX or any of the products that have spawned from it. Apple repackages the same product in different boxes and their loyal followers just keep on buying it. I am proud to say I don't own a single Apple product. The last Apple that any member of my family had was an Apple I and that was made by Wazniak himself. His initials were on the main board. After Waz got burned out and left Apple's "heyday" was over in my book. Looking back I realize that this is a mac vs win board and I just ranted on Apple oops. I did make a very brief mention though that I prefer win7x64 so I guess I just gave a really long rant to give my answer. Shit, I am ranting again, damn pain killers. EOF

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Now how would we be going about explaining this to a simpleton?

And we can't just say "Macs are bad because their leader is evil"

Or refer Star Wars

A simpleton will never understand anyway, so don't worry about it. I can say the third reich was evil because Hilter was their leader, so why not apply that here? If you want a detailed side by side comparison feel free to do it then my man, I don't own an OSX and I hate working on them when a customer of mine has one. Talking about Apple/Jobs is draining.

[T3hRogue]

The Third Reich wasn't evil. Neither was Hitler. It is arguable that Hitler was great for Germany. He did so much for it.
Not to mention 'evil' as a thing doesn't exist. it is but a nametag we give to actions that we frown upon.

[Pack3t SynAck3r]

The Third Reich wasn't evil. Neither was Hitler. It is arguable that Hitler was great for Germany. He did so much for it.
Not to mention 'evil' as a thing doesn't exist. it is but a nametag we give to actions that we frown upon.

Well truly evil can only be defined by comparing and contrasting it to what is considered good. Good and evil are of course only philosophical ideals which come born from human mind independently or from a group collective. In Christianity good and evil are defined by Jesus and Satan, so in religulous (no not a misspell) expression or in any story evil could have definition through physical embodiment.
I could have very well just said Emperor Palpatine was evil therefore the Galactic Empire was evil, it makes little difference. Arguing over sub-context derived from the original idea of the thread is pointless . What is your take on Win vs Mac? This thread was YOUR idea after all so you must have a take. Spill it out.
p.s. Do I get the feeling you are anti-semitic? LMAO

[WARLORDTF]

do not get me started about hitler. as you lot have no idea of the wonders he performed for germany. the idiom of 'evil' associated with hitler is actually wrong. if you want a rant i will rant.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...868317794#